[00:00] Introduction of the theme of sorting
Jerry Helmers: Welcome to another installment among the racks of Warehouse & Logistics within EU. Today we dive deeper into the world of logistics and automation. And believe me, that's a lot more interesting than it may sound, because behind almost every package you receive is a smart sorting system. At my table today: Rens from EuroSort. Rens, perhaps introduce yourself.
Rens Gehling: Yes, I'm Rens Gehling. I'm commercial director at EuroSort.
Jerry Helmers: Look at that. Welcome once again.
Rens Gehling: Thank you.
Jerry Helmers: We start solidly, as in our podcast, with three statements. You may answer yes or no. And then we go a little deeper into the matter. The first proposition: without automation you will simply not make it as a logistics company in the future.
Rens Gehling: Actually a “jeen”. Yes, but.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but. Yes or no?
Rens Gehling: For all medium and large companies, it is definitely a yes.
Jerry Helmers: Well, we'll get into that a little further in a moment. Thesis 2: Many companies don't always see the different possibilities of automation. One hundred percent yes or no?
Rens Gehling: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: Yes. And Theorem 3: It's a clear trend that logistics systems have to be able to deal with higher volumes and lower numbers per order.
Rens Gehling: Agreed.
Jerry Helmers: Agreed, look at that. Absolutely right. Do you want to get back to those statements already or shall we say from....
Rens Gehling: Anything goes.
Jerry Helmers: Anything goes. Well, let's get right to it. Thesis 1: So without automation, you won't make it. You were pretty clear on that, I think.
[01:32] When automation becomes necessary
Rens Gehling: Yes, well as I see it: if you are a small entrepreneur, and they also start with logistics of course, it is not necessarily necessary to invest heavily in automation right away. You want to get your business up and running first, you want to get your sales there first. But if you have some volume, some sales market that comes back daily, then you are very quickly to a degree of automation. That can start with a very simple conveyor belt. But as you grow, you're going to have to invest in automation. Otherwise you just can't meet the expectations of the market, the company or the customer.
Jerry Helmers: The second proposition indeed: many companies do not always see the different possibilities of automation.
Rens Gehling: Yes, I think so, too. I think a lot of companies I talk to, customers I talk to, know very well how their own process is put together. They are obviously the expert in that themselves and have all the knowledge, but they don't always know what else is going on in the market and what is possible. And in general, any form of automation often requires an adjustment in your current process. So you have to start thinking differently from the process you're doing now. And on top of that, the logistics market is big, with a lot of supply, a lot of diversity, and not every company can see the forest for the trees anymore.
Jerry Helmers: And then what's one tip you could pass along?
Rens Gehling: I think one tip above all: go into it open-minded. Go look, have a conversation with the parties. Don't say in advance: this is what I need. Because I read that a lot. Just go into the conversation openly. And don't try, at least, when we as a company approach a customer, we do a lot of demand-driven and so a lot of consultative selling. What do you need? Just really try to find out that challenge with the customer and what they need. Not every company does that. They just say: we have this product, and they actually try to push it. That's not how we work.
[03:34] Trend toward more orders with fewer items
Jerry Helmers: And finally that third statement, before we really dive deeper. Logistics systems must be able to deal with higher volumes and lower numbers per order.
Rens Gehling: Yes, one hundred percent. Where traditionally, I call it pre-COVID, it was a lot of delivery to stores, to companies, B2B, COVID turned that around quite a bit to an online environment where we deliver a lot directly to the end customer, B2C. That means: a store got a lot of items per order. And right now, customers are only ordering a few items. You and I order online at our computer only one, two or three items max and press buy. That's a very different dynamic in your logistics process. You have to adapt to that. And that ties in exactly with your statement.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, thank you Rens, so far. But let's go back to the beginning again. You say: we know everything about sorting. Left to right, big to small. What do you guys actually do exactly?
[04:33] What exactly EuroSort does
Rens Gehling: Well, EuroSort is a company. We are the expert and specialist in sorting solutions, in the broad sense of the word. So wherever we can improve the process, we try to address it. And that even starts with order picking. That's actually what you improve with sorting in fulfillment in the first place.
Jerry Helmers: With order picking, can you give an example of that for example then?
Rens Gehling: Yes, well suppose: you have a small warehouse. You walk into the warehouse and you grab some items. You walk back again to fulfill an order. Your number of orders increases, then at some point you are doing a lot of walking and retrieving items from your warehouse. Then it's a logical step to say, you know what, I'll grab a batch, lots of the same SKU, same item, take it, put it on a sorting solution and I'll sort it out by customer or company. And so then with a lot less movement in my warehouse, I can create a lot more throughput and capacity to serve my customers. You do that through automation, through a sorting solution.
Jerry Helmers: And indeed you say from big to small. So what should I think about? Clothing, you name it, in terms of size for example. Can you say anything about that?
Rens Gehling: Yes indeed. We are in different markets, obviously broadly. That could be a fashion market. Clothing is one of our focus markets. Consumer products, whether that's electronics or books or what you randomly buy at the store, to toys. Those can be good markets for us. But mail and parcel is also a well-known example. So those markets are broad. If you look at products, that's also broad. So we do have a reputation for doing everything as well. That also means everything we call non-conveyable. So what is difficult to transport, all of that can be done with our solutions.
Jerry Helmers: But also white goods? No right?
Rens Gehling: Yes, also. Well sorry, white goods not: not big washing machines and refrigerators. No, we don't focus on that. We are very much on a max-spectrum. Because if you go to white goods, then you're pretty quickly towards pallets and handling. And then you get a different kind of automation.
Jerry Helmers: But so especially the smaller items up to a certain size?
Rens Gehling: Yes. Maybe at the core: what is EuroSort known for? High capacity especially for items on the smallest possible floor space. Because after all, floor space is pretty pricey.
[07:02] From which volume sorting becomes interesting
Jerry Helmers: And then when does the company get to the point where you think: we should actually do something with sorting?
Rens Gehling: What you see is: companies often start with some kind of conveyor belt or some form of sorting. That's not where we are yet. So just a little bit below us, that's, I'll just call it, the real small business owner. But as soon as you go to three, four thousand pieces an hour that you want to sort out articles, then very quickly we come around the corner. Up to very large systems. For example, we have a system in the Netherlands that does 150,000 items per hour. Those are serious numbers, of course.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that's quite a big system as well. But the bottom line with companies: does that often start with inefficiency then?
Rens Gehling: Yes, it often starts ... Well, inefficiency, that just depends on which perspective you come from of course. Because the customer doesn't see it as inefficient yet, but they say: I want to make a step, I want to work more efficiently. I want to do more volume or I want to increase my delivery reliability. So yes, then you get that move to an automated sorting solution.
Jerry Helmers: And then you're going to look at: how are we going to do it smarter?
Rens Gehling: Yes exactly. So you first engage with a customer. What is your challenge? What does your logistics flow look like? How do goods arrive? How do goods need to leave? What is the volume? What is your order type? What are your products? And based on that, well, we as EuroSort have over five hundred systems in place, we already have a lot of reference and experience and we try to take a customer with us in that. Look, these are possibilities. To really start the conversation: what suits you? So we make a customer-specific solution with existing, proven technology.
[08:49] Where sorting returns in the warehouse
Jerry Helmers: And you also see sorting coming back in different places, right? At entry of goods, for example, at return flows. It can be in multiple places, positions in a warehouse.
Rens Gehling: Definitely, definitely. I think sorting in two positions is often known. That's what we call fulfillment, so order picking, and in shipping, when I have to sort out to a truck or a bus. But it's much broader. It can be with incoming goods. But what we also see a lot of now are return flows. We all return packages. You see a lot of customers who buy multiple shirts and only one fits. Or shoes. And the rest goes back. That's a growing, unfortunately, market. Because it's actually unnecessary, but it does happen. That's also where you get another sorting battle. So everywhere you look of: okay, there are more coming in, I'm going to sort it out. Or back to item level, that's also possible. So I say: there are hundreds of thousands of goods coming in, but I want it back at SKU level, Stock Keeping Unit, so the type of item. There it can also be done through sorting.
Jerry Helmers: Yeah, okay. But no two warehouses are really the same. So how do you guys address that?
Rens Gehling: Yes, that's kind of catching up on what we just said. We're really going to look at the customer. What do you need? What does your flow look like? And with that, also the technology that you apply, whether it's mechanical or software technology, or the control, is different every time.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, and also the type of product I assume?
Rens Gehling: Yes, definitely.
[10:31] How a sales and design process works
Jerry Helmers: And what does such a process look like?
Rens Gehling: In general, it's pretty standard. Solution-based selling. The first piece is a lot of inventory. You spend most of the time with that. Then we often say: we have a certain concept. That is a certain performance and a certain price. With that you start the conversation with the customer. If this doesn't fit, then we adjust it. That is a process that has several iterations, until we finally arrive at a solution where the customer says: this fits well with my wishes and connects with my logistics business. And then you make it more concrete in detail. And eventually, of course, you proceed to a purchase by a customer. And I think that's important to emphasize. I think it's very important when you get to that point to be realistic: okay, now you're actually entering into a marriage. We are now here with each other for the next ten or twenty years. You're not getting rid of you guys. That's a nice way of putting it, but I think it's important. We are really a partner and not the supplier. So it's not: you buy, you turn in and you're gone. No, in logistics, especially with sorting solutions, you're talking about strategic investments in the heart of an operation. That just has to run all the time. Then you have to be able to rely on each other. You have to rely on the reliability, the quality and the service that a party provides, because surely that is essential.
Jerry Helmers: Are you guys really distinctive in that as well, or is it characteristic of this industry, of this market?
Rens Gehling: I think we are distinctive in this, because we really do go the extra mile. And I don't mean that in that we offer extra services, but with us the relationship and the reputation is more important than always the profit on a project. We have a statement: every customer is a reference customer. It has to be. And I can honestly tell you that every client who would call from us speaks positively about us. And actually: the proof is in the pudding. Existing customers come back every time and buy more. And that's proof to me that we deliver well. I don't think that's true for every company.
[12:47] Why automation pays off
Jerry Helmers: When does automation get really interesting?
Rens Gehling: You see mainly: labor, of course, is still a big limiting factor. That's the number one driver for automation. You also see that peak loads increase. Ultimately, that's when you make the money. Around holidays and such, you have to be able to deliver that. So you can't always do that with people, so then you automate. And a piece of reliability: are you delivering on time, but are you also delivering the right goods? The more automated you do, the less humans can make mistakes in a process, the more reliable it becomes.
Jerry Helmers: Yeah, that's always one of those statements from a lot of companies: they look at the investment, but automation actually always makes money. Can you explain that further?
Rens Gehling: Yes, I think so. But my heart has also been in automation all my life. I don't see this as something that has a cost. I see it as an investment that ultimately pays off more, allowing you to grow as a company. So if you really believe in your business, if you see that it is successful, then I would not wait with automation. And at what scale do you step in? Yes, that does depend a lot on your projections. If you have pretty aggressive projections for growth, then I would go straight for decently large automation. And we just have multiple degrees in that as well. So the core is often the same, but around that you can automate a lot more, within even a sorting solution. Then we just give the customer options. We say: well okay, this can be done or this can't be done. To give a concrete example: I had a customer conversation yesterday. That is indeed sorting in fashion. So a little bit of shoes, a lot of clothes and some accessories. Well, that includes a sorting solution. We went to a reference customer. They say, yes, it's perfect. It's exactly what suits him. But do you want to bring in the empty boxes? Do you want to dispose of the full orders? Do you want us to package them? Do you want us to label them with shipping labels? Do you want it then sorted out again on delivery truck or not? Those are choices. You don't have to automate that, but you can. And depending on where a customer is in the process, I would advise: include it.
Jerry Helmers: And can you always scale that up later? Or is that difficult?
Rens Gehling: Definitely. Scaling up is fine. Where often floor space is the limiting factor with many customers. That's where we happen to have a very great strength. We really have a high capacity for a lower floor space.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, and how many items per hour do I have to think about before such a sorting solution is interesting?
Rens Gehling: A small sorting with a conveyor belt with a few outputs starts from as little as a thousand per hour. That's just manual. But we do start getting interesting from four to five thousand. Then you're really talking about the loop sorters.
[15:43] Adapting to customer needs and market trends
Jerry Helmers: How do you and your solutions adapt to customer needs and market trends?
Rens Gehling: That is on the one hand by having a broad portfolio, so that you can offer the appropriate solution to a customer. And also that is to continue a very good product development. So we look very clearly at market trends. We look very clearly at what's going on within our customers. And we discuss those challenges. We take that back and then come up with new innovations that actually give a customer a competitive advantage. Maybe in a moment we'll talk about what we had launched at LogiMAT last week. The e-sort is a perfect example of that.
Jerry Helmers: You're already making the bridge yourself. Perhaps you can expand on that.
[16:31] The introduction of e-sort
Rens Gehling: Yes, we launched that e-sort last week at LogiMAT, based on a year of development and customer feedback and market information retrieval. Actually, it is a solution that specifically addresses e-commerce and omni-channel. What do we do? We multiplied each sort output by a factor of eight to 16. And that has to do with what we said at the very beginning, that third proposition. So we see that it's moving more and more to e-commerce, so a lot more orders, but a lot fewer items per order. So that means for your material handling equipment, you have to be able to create a lot more locations. But you don't want to do that if it takes a lot of floor space. So how do you get more locations in a small floor space? Well, we came up with a solution for that. And that's just an overwhelming success already.
Jerry Helmers: But is that a completely new solution or is that a further development? Or an additional variant, say, based on your existing system?
Rens Gehling: Yes, it's a further development, but with that actually an additional option on our system. So we call that something with a smart roll. So basically it's kind of an automated putwall. We sort in the putwall. But with that you have ... We have the traditional, we call that batch sortation. So basically it's just a rectangular box, which can reach a certain capacity. Which many suppliers offer in different sizes. That one has a limitation, both in floor space and in capacity, and in products. We have actually scaled up our loop sorters so much with technology that we can just do that at large volume, very effectively, very cost-effectively. And also be able to combine that with traditional sorting solutions. So that means you don't just pick one solution to the problem: I want more outlets or I want to do e-com. No, we can combine it with your existing business. So with that, you really create a total solution for a customer and connect to the market much better.
Jerry Helmers: And can customers who have an existing system of yours running also upgrade to that eSort?
Rens Gehling: Yes, that is possible. We are looking at that now with several customers in the Netherlands.
Jerry Helmers: Okay, that of course makes it completely special or interesting.
Rens Gehling: Yes. And what I especially like is that what we came up with is really in the DNA of EuroSort. It's not revolutionary in the sense that we came up with a completely new technology in nuts and bolts. No, however, the concept, how we implement it, is new and revolutionary. It didn't exist before. It's really unique. Yes, we really are the first. And that's because we, well, I find a lot of companies look at each other and then come up with a similar solution that's just a little bit smarter or better or cheaper. And we say, no, we really look at the market. What solution does the market need? What is the demand in the next five years? And we respond to that. Of course you look at the competitor, but without necessarily making a copycat of what already exists.
Jerry Helmers: E-commerce has obviously been around a lot longer, and for a lot longer. Why are you guys coming up with this system now?
Rens Gehling: Actually, the answer is: we've grown hard over the past five years and had tremendous success. And the need was not yet so great to come up with lots of new products. There was just a lot of demand, especially by COVID. A lot of big systems, a lot of roll-outs done. And the focus was on that. So the focus was very much operationally driven. And now you see that focus is also being released more for strategic insight. That's actually also a part that I keep myself busy with.
[20:19] Comments Off on the LogiMAT
Jerry Helmers: And what were the reactions to the LogiMAT, to the eSort?
Rens Gehling: Overwhelming. I think we've never run such a good trade show, never had so many leads, never had so much traffic. We were busy non-stop, literally. Even on the last day, and that was also quite unique, until the end.
Jerry Helmers: Even though you're already cleaning up or something, but...
Rens Gehling: Yes, well, you have to imagine: we are not the biggest company, we are not a big integrator doing billions. But my complete team was constantly talking, both with existing customers and also really a lot of new customers who are going to recognize us at once. Not like companies that say, yes, but I have that problem. I come along here, I recognize myself in this. And you start the conversation. And people are really very enthusiastic.
Jerry Helmers: Look at. Those people who are interested, for example, as a company, how long does it take for that machine, that sorting system, to be there with them then? What is the lead time?
Rens Gehling: Yes, that depends very much, of course, on the size of the project. I would say somewhere between six and ten months is an average. It can sometimes be faster, but it can sometimes take a little longer if you have a mega project.
[21:34] Market trends and the role of robots
Jerry Helmers: With all the hustle and bustle at the LogiMAT, you obviously didn't have a chance to walk around the fair there. I can imagine that. But you might have a good idea of what other trends are going on in the market here. Do you have an idea about that? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Rens Gehling: What I do see, of course I've walked around a bit, but you see a trend especially very much towards AMR, all the autonomous robots driving around. I think there really is a limit to that as well. Because you just see, and this is maybe nice from my perspective to share, the gold standards. So that was kind of AMR, black box: okay, I throw something in there and everything goes off automatically, top. Or I have a storage, an AS/RS, automatic storage and retrieval. So AutoStore and shuttle systems used to be big names. I think that's kind of on its decline.
Jerry Helmers: Well, yes?
Rens Gehling: Yes, because what we see now in our solutions is that there is a certain limit to that: to capacity, to floor space and also to investment. And we are showing with our solution that if you use our solution in combination with those systems, so a sorting solution in combination with an AutoStore, but fully automatically integrated, you have more throughput, so more capacity, a smaller floor space and again a lower investment. So the knife cuts several ways. And then it kind of ties into what we said at the very beginning with those statements: be open-minded. So don't start thinking: okay, this is a black box and this solves everything, and I'll just scale that black box as big as I need. But if you can really integrate and combine different systems, you just have a more competitive solution. And we're seeing that slowly coming back now. But that does mean that we as a supplier have to take the customer and the market with us on what is possible.
[23:31] Collaborating with other suppliers
Jerry Helmers: But so you also have to work with other vendors of other systems?
Rens Gehling: Definitely, definitely.
Jerry Helmers: That's already happening?
Rens Gehling: Yes. Well, we deliver to different types of customers. So it can be an end customer, just an entrepreneur, big or small, it doesn't matter, or an integrator. We deliver turnkeys ourselves, as we call it. But we can also make a partial delivery to a larger integrator that incorporates our solution into a larger whole. And what we often see is that those, we call that solution design teams, whether it's a third-party logistic or an integrator, that we try to bring those along, train those in what we have. And also consultants: be aware of what's out there.
Jerry Helmers: Your website says big: we believe in simplicity. What exactly do you mean by that? It can be interpreted in multiple ways.
[24:29] Why simplicity is key
Rens Gehling: At its core, that means we believe in not unnecessary complexity. Keep it simple, you could say. We try to provide a customer with a solution that is of good quality, or high quality, reliable and efficient, without applying too much unnecessary technology, sensors and software, which in the end is just a risk in the long run for maintenance and reliability.
Jerry Helmers: Today also, that you said of: we are actually entering into a marriage.
Rens Gehling: Yes definitely, definitely. And our machines are also really known for their low maintenance costs and a very good total cost of ownership. Maybe a little example I want to give, is nice. We had an American customer, late last year over, a big name, well known to most also in Europe.
Jerry Helmers: Well, say it.
Rens Gehling: Well, I'll hold off on that for a while, but we already supply quite a lot of machines there. Because we also have a branch in America as part of EuroSort. And they come to us, they go to customers, they see our factories. They say: oh yes, but where is A, B, C? There isn't. We don't need that complexity, that sensory. What we supply is often completely focused on mechanical sorting, but with very smart control and a smart concept. Yes, but then I hardly have to maintain anything, the customer says. Yes, that is true. But it does provide the capacity you're looking for and it doesn't cost the world to... Maybe just to clarify: we all know a crossbelt, for example. That's the gold standard in the market. Those have a lot of capacity, a lot of performance and capabilities, but that also has a certain cost to purchase. It has quite a cost to maintain, just the power and your technicians. Well, we have a crosstray. What is a crosstray? That's actually a mechanized solution of a crossbelt, so not with drives but just purely with an extension guide, mechanically driven, but fully enclosed. So with that we can solve the disadvantages of a crossbelt, because we can handle all items, all non-conveyables, but at the same time for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the maintenance cost. And that's a very popular solution with many of those customers.
Jerry Helmers: Also the energy consumption all goes down? Or practically nothing even?
Rens Gehling: That's in relation to other solutions, I'll say for a moment.
[27:16] Dutch technology and competition from China
Jerry Helmers: And you are also a Dutch company. Are the products also produced in the Netherlands?
Rens Gehling: Yes, we are Dutch. Everything we put away worldwide, the core of the technology comes from the Netherlands, from our headquarters near Weesp, near Amsterdam. But you do see that conveyor belts, for example, we buy those from a real specialist. I mean, we're not going to develop a packaging machine ourselves.
Jerry Helmers: Yeah, you never want to unearth that either.
Rens Gehling: No, so the sorting technology, that core, that comes from the Netherlands, that is developed in the Netherlands. Everything around it, conveyor belts, labelers, we buy those through partners.
Jerry Helmers: Are you bothered in that sense by companies from China?
Rens Gehling: Yes and no. I think China as a generality puts a lot of pressure on the industry. It doesn't matter which party you talk to. Whether it's also in automotive, of course it's very well known there. But also in logistics. You see many providers. Every year another one is added, but I also see very clearly that there are limits to what they offer.
Jerry Helmers: But they often undercut the price, for example?
Rens Gehling: Yes, well, you see that they have A volume, which is obviously a price pressure, but they also have a lot of support, state support and they want to penetrate the market, so they often go at cost prices or very low in it, buy projects. But I do notice now, after years 5, 6 that they are really active in that market, their business model is going to change. All at once they want to have different requirements, desires. And customers also notice, now the service side comes around the corner, the reliability. Yeah, who am I reaching?
Jerry Helmers: So there isn't one, or at least?
Rens Gehling: Yes, often difficult and a lot more difficult. And then I say as EuroSort, I guarantee my product. We are always there, left or right, we make sure the system runs and not for a few years but 10, 20 years.
[29:18] 25 years of EuroSort and looking ahead
Jerry Helmers: Finally, you guys are celebrating 25 years this year I believe. Tell us, what can we expect? Are you guys having an anniversary edition? We're still hanging
Rens Gehling: We're not hanging around the clock that big yet, indeed we've been around for 25 years. We have really grown into a small business of course in a garage like most small businesses start. To a really reputable player. A leader in the sorting world. With a broad portfolio. Well, so what does those 25 years mean to us? That's a milestone. A recognition of where we are now. And also another great hook to look to the future. Where will we be again in ten years?
Jerry Helmers: Well, in those ten years....
Jerry Helmers: Put a tip of the hat.
Rens Gehling: What we want to do I would deliver sorting solutions in the domain we want to go even wider so in the sorting domain we want to offer total solutions for sorting that means we are not going to sell or advise warehouse racks there we are not the knowledge bear me or manufacturer of that but everything that comes after once you start looking at look must fulfill orders up to and including in the truck or in the delivery van, that domain, that is where we want to be able to offer solutions. Both as a total package for an end customer, as well as partial solutions for other integrators or parties that like to work with us.
Jerry Helmers: So you go broader perhaps?
Rens Gehling: Yes, unburdening the customer. And what we actually haven't talked about yet, but of course you see that. You see that labor is a driving factor, cost of course.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, of course.
Rens Gehling: I also really believe in that hyper automation, so what we call dark factories, or really so human-poor. Yes, really just something goes in and something comes out and there are almost no people involved. We have a site like that, recently we launched a video of it in Poland. So then you have a complete sorting solution, fully automatic. So loading, sorting and processing.
[31:17] Fully automated sorting solution in Poland
Jerry Helmers: No human being involved?
Rens Gehling: No, just for control? Yes, control or just that exception that you want to trade, but where the barcode is not right. You still keep that too. So it's incidental. If you take that route further, basically I believe in that you can fully automate it. And I also believe that we, as EuroSort, will soon be able to offer solutions that will realize that for you.
Jerry Helmers: But that business, just coming back to that business in Poland, is kind of interesting. Did you guys do that completely, say? Did you guys completely take care of that project, the sorting part?
Rens Gehling: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, but that is also a combination of... Yes, yes, yes, yes exactly. Before that of course there is a piece of storage and order picking and in this case after our... We sorted out into a box or into a tote. That is automatically closed and processed. Well, that's where our scope stopped. And then it's a piece of further handling at this party. We didn't do that. But we can at other parties. So it does form part of our scope.
Jerry Helmers: Was this a pilot project or is this really already...
Rens Gehling: No, this has been running for five years now.
Jerry Helmers: Oh, it's been running for five years even?
Rens Gehling: Yes. We have a lot of systems away, but before you're allowed to publish something because it's often unique, competitive, then of course such a customer also... he keeps that in front of his chest for a while and I don't want to make my competitor aware yet that this can actually, can and does exist already.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, because are there any new applications on that?
Rens Gehling: Yes, definitely. Yes, the walk with us a lot.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, and then you're not allowed to tell anything about it?
Rens Gehling: No, not always. And it is something that we as a party do work on with clients. That I say okay, especially now with all the AI tools and exposure and SEO, SEA, GEO. Okay, well how can we make those use cases insightful and public? But yeah, that's not possible for a long time. Always a lot of parties don't want to give you that ability. Who say, we just have those systems in place. This is unique. We have a competitive advantage with this, so just keep it a secret.
[33:20] The role of AI within EuroSort
Jerry Helmers: And if we look a little further into the future in terms of developments, you just mentioned AI for example, you're probably betting on that as well?
Rens Gehling: Yes, AI too, but AI I see dichotomously. I see it as a driver for our organization to become more efficient. Just like that you could record this with AI and transcribe.
Jerry Helmers: Indeed, we do.
Rens Gehling: That doesn't surprise me at all. That's a way of creating efficiency. We do plenty of that in our organization as well. We have quite a few projects running in that area. I also see it as a second enabler where we can create problem sets with knowledge. So you're really going to create a database within your own environment, within your company, where you let AI come up with solution directions that increase your products, that maybe you didn't think of yet yourself. We have some examples of that where you think, oh wait, that's kind of nice what's coming out here all at once. And that's something you could have thought of yourself, could have created, but not in the time frame in which you came to that conclusion with AI and substantiated that.
[34:37] Closing tip for listeners
Jerry Helmers: Interesting. Yeah definitely. Finally what would you like to give our listeners as a tip at the end of the talk?
Rens Gehling: Nice question. I would pass along as a tip above all keep looking ahead. Keep looking at opportunities. Don't be blind to what you're doing now, and also don't just start thinking in some kind of funnel. Okay, I need this.
Jerry Helmers: Of course, that's very difficult isn't it?
Rens Gehling: Yes, it's very difficult I think to oversee the whole market. But yes, be open-minded and just go into the conversation. And if you also know like well, this is not it, then stop there and start looking again. I do really think, especially in the logistics world, every pot has a lid. There is so much on offer. You can really find what you need, no doubt.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that showed but at the LogiMAT again, huh, for example.
Rens Gehling: Yes, one hundred percent.
Jerry Helmers: Okay, Rens, thank you very much for this conversation.
Rens Gehling: You're welcome.
Jerry Helmers: And listeners, thank you for listening. And until the next podcast.
