[0:10] Introduction of Gobotty and AMR
Roel Van Gils: Welcome to yet another episode of Tussen de Stellingen. With me at the table Arie Verhoeven from Gobotty. Welcome Arie.
Arie Verhoeven: Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you for allowing me to be here. I'm Arie Verhoeven from Gobotty, based in Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht. Technical logistics background, which allows us to help our customers in a few ways well and understand the processes. We have actually been developing AMR for about six or seven years. A year and a half ago we decided to make it a separate company with a separate entity. By doing so, we want to be close to our customers and create a single point of contact for our customers. AMR stands for Automatic Mobile Robots. With these solutions, we can transport all kinds of products - pallets, boxes and piece goods - from A to B. In addition, if customers have specific goods, we can make modifications to them so they can help our customers from a standard. We use technologies that we have developed ourselves in other companies. The experience in control technology is already 25 years old.
[1:49] Different types of robotic systems and applications
Roel Van Gils: Oh, look at that. And what exactly do your robots do? Because you have different types, I understood. Can you elaborate on that?
Arie Verhoeven: We have a type that allows us to transport products from A to B. Those are pallets, for example. So if you have a production line where goods come off, you want to take them to a car or to another location. Then we can drive our vehicle towards the roller conveyor. Our AMR also has a roller conveyor on it. So we can take the goods automatically. And then we drive to the destination location. There we drive again against another roller conveyor and then we can unload them completely. That's one solution. We also have one. There we can be filled, for example, with a small crane. For example, if you have boxes or piece goods, we are filled with a small crane. Then we drive to another location. This application is used a lot between two different lines. For example, if you're producing something on one line and on the second line you want to print something or do a certain operation, for example. In the old days, you often had roller tracks between two lines and then you had a line for one product. Nowadays they call it flexible manufacturing. Then you can also skip certain things. So by connecting those lines with AMR, you can set up your process very flexibly. It can actually be different every day if there is a need for it. We also do a lot of work in greenhouse horticulture and towards the auctions. Then it's plant and flower transport. A lot of carts are used in that sector. Those carts are now often operated by electric tractors with people on them. We can just do that completely autonomously. So no manpower is needed anymore. Then we can pick up those carts somewhere, hitch them up, take them away and put them down at the destination location.
Roel Van Gils: It just saves manpower without someone physically involved actually?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, with no one involved.
[3:40] Working with people and distinctiveness
Roel Van Gils: Without anyone involved actually, physically?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, with no one involved.
Roel Van Gils: And what makes your solution different from other robotic systems?
Arie Verhoeven: Our robot can drive completely autonomously. And according to the CE marking that applies throughout Europe, we can cooperate with people and other vehicles. We are one of the few in the Netherlands that can do that. We have to comply with the CE marking. We can drive and transport goods. If we drive on a certain platform or on a path and there are people walking there, we are going to avoid those people completely.
Roel Van Gils: So your robots work together with humans in one process actually?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, exactly. And that's the uniqueness of our concept. That it is allowed by the regulations.
Roel Van Gils: And what regulation is that?
Arie Verhoeven: That's the CE marking. And there are some other specific markings that apply in our world. I don't know those off the top of my head.
Roel Van Gils: No, it doesn't matter. Maybe it goes too far for this podcast as well. But you guys are the only ones in that?
Arie Verhoeven: We are the only ones in that. And what also fairly distinguishes us: there are quite a lot of brand manufacturers, colleagues, who collect the images and transport them to other countries. So we don't do that. We store everything in the robot. Because we drive a robot through a company building, you know a lot about the customer. You just don't want that data to end up outside the premises. That's also something that sets us apart from other companies. And the third thing that sets us apart: having a robot drive is not that exciting in itself, but it's very much about the customer's process. That we just intervene well on that and relieve that customer. Very often adjustments are also needed to the receiving station where you are going to put your things down, or the bringing station where you are going to pick up your things. We take care of those adjustments as well. And fourthly, we almost never sell them, we almost always rent them out. It is quite a fear among our customers to go into business with these solutions. So we remove those disadvantages for the customer. There are no investments required. We just work with a fixed monthly fee. So even the adjustments needed at the customer's site are all taken care of in the monthly fee. In addition, we do maintenance and service. So the customer really just knows: it costs me so many euros per hour to do this operation.
[6:06] Initial customer contact and implementation process
Roel Van Gils: But take us through. What does a first customer moment like that look like? People might be a little suspicious or think: a whole technology inside.
Arie Verhoeven: We always start with a cup of coffee. Just getting acquainted at the table. After that I always like to do a tour of the company. Because then you really see what's happening. Then you see much more than a thousand words. Then we come up with a plan together, a sketch or something. We work that out in more detail on site. Then we make a customized proposal to the customer. We discuss that again. Then the customer decides whether they will continue with us or not. If they then continue with us, then a good robot is taken care of and the adjustments are made. At some point, on a certain day that we have planned together, a programmer will come from us. He will put the vehicle into operation together with the customer. Because we want the customer to help us right away. And that we can immediately transfer our knowledge to allay all fears immediately. The best thing is that the people who are doing the work now are also included in the process. What I just said: letting the robot drive is not that exciting. But the people who are going to work with it have to understand the process. You just have to involve them properly from the start to make the process a success.
[7:35] LiDAR technology and safety systems
Roel Van Gils: And then when you look, diving a little deeper into the technology. Because we work with LiDAR systems, I understood? Or how does such an AMR work?
Arie Verhoeven: At the front of the robot is the LiDAR. Actually all the way around. A little bit depending on the type. On the vehicle where the carts are pulled, it's at the front. The other vehicle is 360 degrees all around. So then we know what's there. He can see 270 degrees all around. And at 18 meters away, he's already going to intervene.
Roel Van Gils: So he's looking ahead actually?
Arie Verhoeven: He looks ahead, but also 270 degrees behind him. Based on the image he sees continuously, he calculates where to go. If he sees moving objects, he will calculate whether he needs to reduce his speed. Of course, he should never collide.
Roel Van Gils: But if someone happens to get in between, he could possibly make an emergency stop?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, so then he's going to stop very quickly. Because you just want every colleague to get home safely as well.
Roel Van Gils: But that load, that's taken into account?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes. It depends again on the type of load. For example, if you have a pallet with a big bag on it that weighs 1,500 pounds, you have to take into account with the software that you can stop in a controlled way according to the standards. Also in the curves, if you drive through there with a big heavy product, that you don't fly out of the curve or lose your product.
Roel Van Gils: What is the average speed actually of such a robot?
Arie Verhoeven: About 6 kilometers per hour is the maximum speed. That's about walking speed.
[9:12] Outdoor applications and autonomous driving with GPS
Roel Van Gils: And I understood that you have different types. But they can also work outside, right?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, we have one type that can also work outside. That is the Enduros. With those we can also drive outside. Even in rain and snow conditions. Over rough terrain. So even if there is a curb or tree roots, we can just drive over them. It positions itself completely autonomously by means of GPS.
Roel Van Gils: Okay. And do you have an example of that, for deployment, for example?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, these can easily be used in greenhouse farming, for example. We often have some uneven floors. We can also drive in the paths and in the hoods. The Danish carts and the CC carts that are used a lot in the auction, we can just pick them up and take them away autonomously. You also have companies that do certain operations outside. For example, who have pallets on a site outside where they store goods. If they just have a fixed location, we can just pick them up automatically. Then, of course, it is important that you have an overhead system where it is known where the pallets with the products are. Of course, that has to be identifiable.
Roel Van Gils: But the robots work, I indicated, completely autonomously. No markings or other things need to be made on the floor, for example?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, right. That is also a point where we differ from other parties. We don't need cross stripes, or coding stripes, or reflectors, or copper strips in the ground. None of that is necessary. We make our own scan of our customer's existing infrastructure. That also makes it a good system compared to other systems. So if you change something in your business, you almost don't have to change anything. You just do it software-wise in the robot.
Roel Van Gils: But then you walk through the company again or something? Or is that measured in? Or does that robot do that itself?
Arie Verhoeven: The customer can do that himself. We give him training for that. But most customers have us do it. Then we just drive by, make an appointment for it. With a few hours you just have the changes back in.
[11:19] AI, self-learning software and robot collaboration
Roel Van Gils: And is that robot also self-learning?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes. There is a lot of AI software in it. It measures at some point all its patterns what it is driving. Those are continuously logged. If you find that he's often doing the same repetitive things, then he's going to position that turn better and better, for example. The first day when you make a turn, you often see him a little shaky going forward into the turn. After seven days or so, you see that it becomes a smooth turn. Because then he figures out what the speeds are often allowed to be in those turns.
Roel Van Gils: So he is actually continuously improving his time?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes. And there is another intelligence in it. If you have several robots working together and you give it a command from a higher-level platform, it's going to calculate which command to give to which robot. What the shortest possible time is.
Roel Van Gils: Okay, so who is best suited for that job actually.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, which robot in that sense. All that intelligence is in it.
Roel Van Gils: Because collaboration also happens regularly, right, so that there are multiple robots driving the warehouse?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, that is very common. I have very few customers who have one standing. It does occur, there are also just valued customers. But very often you just want to have another backup. So then they just start with two robots.
Roel Van Gils: Well beautiful. Because, of course, that's the downside of the robot. If it stands still, it doesn't do anything anymore either.
Arie Verhoeven: So a lot of customers just have two.
Roel Van Gils: But that, of course, is rare, that they are stationary.
Arie Verhoeven: That is very rare, yes. Especially compared to people's disease.
[12:52] Target groups and applications in manufacturing industry
Roel Van Gils: And speaking of customers, in what target market, who are your main customers?
Arie Verhoeven: They are companies that make products. So we call that manufacturing companies. Suppose you have a company where you do milling work on steel. Then you have to supply and remove material from that CNC bench every time. We can automatically supply such a company with materials. So the material that is finished is also already being disposed of in another process. In that process, again, you have to have other tools, for example chisels. The machine knows what chisels I need in two hours. Then we give that order to a little robot and have that chisel brought. So you also reduce a lot of walking in the company. But the robot handles transportation from A to B. Not collecting those chisels. Then again, another piece of equipment does that. You have companies where people will walk with those chisels. Or with a small cart. You can also put a small robot that drives to the warehouse. There the warehouse manager puts a chisel on the little robot and then it drives to the right destination. Other companies again have a production line where the product is taken off on roller conveyors. That is now more often done by forklifts or by EPTs. You can have our robots do that completely autonomously. And the other application is cart transport. That is particularly the greenhouse industry.
[14:07] Capacity, towing capacity and different sizes
Roel Van Gils: And then if you look in terms of capacity, what can those robots handle?
Arie Verhoeven: The robots that drive in we have several types. We often talk about payload. The smallest can lift 60 pounds and the largest can lift 1,500 pounds.
Roel Van Gils: And lifting is just transporting then?
Arie Verhoeven: Transportation. Think of a pallet. That's easy, everyone knows what a pallet is. Then we can transport a pallet of 1,500 pounds.
Roel Van Gils: Oh, that's serious.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes.
Roel Van Gils: That's a hefty robot, then.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes. So in addition to that, they can pull.
Roel Van Gils: So the towing weight is the same then?
Arie Verhoeven: No, that's a different type. We have a number of types in there. But they range from 600 to 1300 kilos of towing capacity. That towing capacity also has to do with braking capacity. In many companies, you also have a road that goes up to another floor. A ramp. Then you also have to be able to overcome the power if you have to brake on that ramp.
Roel Van Gils: Oh, if you stand there still and have to pull up again.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, so then you also have to be able to stop. That you don't drive your little train of goods backwards while you want to go forwards. That's all within the guidelines. There are also larger types coming next year. We are developing larger capacities. Think of 2.5 to 5 tons of towing weight.
Roel Van Gils: So that's really serious towing weight. And then is the size the same? Or are those bigger as well?
Arie Verhoeven: The one of 5 tons is really getting bigger. The one of 2.5 tons continues to run in the same size. Only the engines will be heavier. And the battery power.
Roel Van Gils: Because you just mentioned that smallest one of 60 pounds. How big is that approximately? Can you give a picture of that?
Arie Verhoeven: Which is about 40 to 60 centimeters. Think about a crate for a moment. One of those jumbo crates on wheels.
Roel Van Gils: And about 1,500 pounds, what should you think about?
Arie Verhoeven: Then it's about 1 meter 80 by 1 meter 20.
Roel Van Gils: Okay. That's still reasonable, too. Such a small car.
Arie Verhoeven: Small car, yes.
[16:12] Electric drive, battery life and charging stations
Roel Van Gils: And they are all-electric I assume.
Arie Verhoeven: Of course. So they are sustainable. You have no emissions in your business.
Roel Van Gils: But how long can they last? What is the range on average?
Arie Verhoeven: That depends a little bit on the power, of course. But roughly you can say that you can work and drive continuously for 16 hours on one battery charge. Then it depends a little bit on the type. Between two and four hours it is fully full again.
Roel Van Gils: So then you can actually run two shifts with one robot on one day. But it's not like it will then load somewhere in between? Is it at the end of the day?
Arie Verhoeven: You can. It depends a little bit on the type of application. If that possibility is not there, we can just drive 16 hours continuously. Usually that is already sufficient. There are also companies that work 24 hours a day. So then you have to load in between. For example, if there is a lunch break at a company or if there are no orders for half an hour, then we will go and recharge.
Roel Van Gils: And that includes a charging station?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, there are two variants. We know in software when the battery starts to get reasonably empty. And we know the distance where that robot is then to the charging station. Then we continuously calculate: can this task it is getting now still be accomplished? Then we drain the battery as much as possible. Then we go to the charging station. There we have two types. We have one where you have to manually insert a cable. That one is used very little. And we have one where you just have a coil that's in the ground. Induction charging. Or on the wall. Then it drives its support gently against the wall. Then he doesn't make physical contact, but he just stands in front of the charging station. And then when he is ready, he signals to the central system. Then he gets commands again and drives off. That's actually implemented that way in 90% of the cases.
Roel Van Gils: Because then, of course, no one will be involved.
Arie Verhoeven: Then no one has to be involved. Then it remains completely autonomous.
[18:09] Implementation, infrastructure and ICT integration
Roel Van Gils: And does the company have to make a lot of adjustments to deploy your robots?
Arie Verhoeven: No, no. We use the existing infrastructure. Sometimes, for example, such a charging station has to be installed somewhere. Then there has to be space. Then there has to be an outlet for power current or 230 volts. But that is discussed with the customer in advance. Sometimes at hallways you have very rough floors. Then those floors, the heads have to be ground off. Things like that, we just take that up with the customer. But generally the customer has to do pretty little. We are also able to go through all those processes together with that customer. Of course, we very often have to deal with our customer's existing ICT infrastructure. We need wifi or 5G.
Roel Van Gils: That's full coverage?
Arie Verhoeven: It doesn't have to be super coverage. But we have to have wifi coverage every 15 meters on average. Wifi or 5G, it doesn't matter. That's a choice we also agree with the customer. Almost all companies just have a good wifi coverage network. Of course, our customers also want their network not to be hacked. So often it's also a collaboration between their ICT department and our ICT people that that process just runs smoothly.
Roel Van Gils: That nobody wants to break in on that robot actually.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, exactly.
Roel Van Gils: So actually the threshold to move to a robot is very low.
Arie Verhoeven: That one is very low, yes. But for a lot of customers it's still quite a step. We have to take them by the hand to do that.
[19:52] Rental model and cost structure
Roel Van Gils: And what you pointed out indeed, so you guys don't sell them. You guys are really using a leasing structure, right?
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, we don't do leasing. Legally it is something else. We rent them out. We make a calculation at the front end of what the customer needs. How many robots, what infrastructure, how many charging points and so on. It is actually a very long hall, so it can be handy to be able to charge in several places. We calculate that in advance. This way we make a conceptual plan towards our customers. That is then put into operation later. Then we just have a fixed amount per month. The customer just knows: for that amount it will be taken care of for me.
Roel Van Gils: And why did you choose that model?
Arie Verhoeven: Because there is also quite a lot of fear in the market about AMR. We believe very much in our own product. That's why we came up with this. In practice it turns out to be successful. The customer just knows: this costs me so much per hour or so much per month. You can offset that against his labor costs. And of course you pay that per month.
Roel Van Gils: And that includes everything, doesn't it? In that amount.
Arie Verhoeven: Everything is in there. So maintenance, depreciation, things that break down. The risk is completely ours.
Roel Van Gils: But are there start-up costs then maybe? Or do you have to measure it in? Everything is included in that rate?
Arie Verhoeven: Only in that amount. Unless the customer himself does things that are not allowed. If he causes damage, for example. Then we can't do anything.
[21:18] Robot maintenance and deployment
Roel Van Gils: And is there a lot of maintenance? Do they need a lot of maintenance?
Arie Verhoeven: No. What the customer has to do himself is to clean the sensors every day with a small special duster. That is maintenance. That's two minutes of work. Those lenses just get dirty from dust that hangs in the company. Twice a year - that depends a bit on the intensity of the process - we have to come by. Then we just do a check on a number of points and the wear parts are replaced. We always schedule that time with the customer so that he has minimal inconvenience. Many companies have a certain day in the week that is a little less busy. That's when we do the maintenance.
Roel Van Gils: But that's not too bad then?
Arie Verhoeven: That's not too bad.
Roel Van Gils: And if we look back a little bit more. Who is it really interesting for? From how many FTE?
Arie Verhoeven: It's actually of interest to any customer where goods are moved from A to B. Where more than one FTE is working per day. Look, if now someone on an electric tractor drives back and forth all day and we put an AMR there, our business model is set up in such a way that this is cheaper than that person sitting on that tractor. We're not out to eliminate people away from companies. But those people can just do other things more efficiently. We're especially strong at repetitive things.
[23:03] Ambitions and advice to the market
Roel Van Gils: Where do you guys ultimately want to grow to? What are your ambitions?
Arie Verhoeven: We want to unburden our customers. Our ambition is that every company in the Netherlands where electric tractors now drive back and forth, that they will soon have red Gobotty's driving by.
Roel Van Gils: Because that's your house color.
Arie Verhoeven: That is our house color yes. We deliberately chose that. Strikes nicely.
Roel Van Gils: Okay, well fine. What finally the advice to the market perhaps.
Arie Verhoeven: I quite notice during sales calls that there are customers who are quite suspicious. Is it really that simple? That's why I always say: just test us. We just put it with you for two weeks. We just set it up in a certain process of your customer. Then you get to test it for two weeks. If you like it we'll leave it. And if it doesn't like it then we pick it up again. Then we are happy to work with the customer.
Roel Van Gils: Okay nice. Well nice. I would say try it.
Arie Verhoeven: Yes, that's right.
Roel Van Gils: Well Arie, thank you so much for all your input. For your story. Pretty clear I guess.
Arie Verhoeven: You're welcome. If you would like to contact us, please call us at 088-425-6900 or email info@gobotty.com.
Roel Van Gils: Very good. Listeners, thanks for listening and until the next episode.
